Palmerston North Public Meeting 22 October 2003
Sherwood Motor Inn, Featherston Street
7pm to 9pm
90 Attended
Commentary
· What is a river?
· You said that local solutions are the best solutions - are you suggesting that district plans have not achieved what they intended?
· `Muddled' terms of reference.
- You are pretending that the core problem is one of waterways, but there is a far bigger problem.
- Lament the fact that this is walking access alone, done to the disadvantage of a growing sector.
- Ignore people that do horse trekking, mountain climbing.
- Responsibility for those with disabilities.
- Endorse access by other means other than walking.
· Applaud leadership.
- Needs teeth/power.
- Can see abuses of access.
· The Queen's Chain ethos is good but need an understanding of how landowners feel, i.e. deeming of the land.
· Suggestion of negotiated solutions is good, but nervous about using the legal road proposal as a currency to trade.
· All the years that this person has been fishing, never had any problem gaining access.
- Policy that asks people for access, against the right to wander at will.
- Worries that access to back country streams is being shut, would like to see this stopped.
- Can go to a farmer and be asked to pay large sums of money.
- But no problem in paying a small fee for the upkeep of tracks/roads.
· Regional councils are not playing the game, they should be held accountable.
· Should stop the ability to charge for access.
- Reference to section 26zn of the Conservation Act - make it illegal to charge for freshwater fishing.
- Amend section 26zl of the Act so that Fish and Game have the power to have the Minister close down that section of the river.
· Interested in protecting the river environment.
- People do not realise how fragile that environment is, 4WD can upset the balance easily.
· Want a future of access for our children - rights that we believed that we had under the Queen's Chain concept.
· Want to see access - walk as of right along streams and through private land to get to streams.
- Problems in the South Island.
- Access without cost to the landowner.
- Cost of signage etc in the hands of those wanting access.
- The right to roam is malicious, unnecessary, and glad to see that few people want it.
· Worried about trespass laws.
- Give landowner a lot in relation to land user.
- But also want to give landowner power against real trespassers.
- Want secure access.
- It is a courtesy to negotiate to go through land with a vehicle/hunters.
· A lot of farms have incorporated paper roads, they have to be identified clearly.
· To create a new reserve/strip, have to take private land to do that.
- How do you propose to compensate people for the loss of land?
· Is there a loss?
- Still right to use that land, so no loss.
· In the Wairarapa, farm sizes are modest in terms of hectares.
- Have been negotiating angler access for the past few months on the Ruamahunga River, where there is no Queen's Chain.
- Reasonable angler access, provided by the riverbed without the requirement to go through/across private land.
- Want to negotiate access from a road to a river, rather than through a farm.
- No requirement to negotiate any further access as access is close enough.
- Do not want access points too close together.
- Excellent report.
· Cost of fencing, problem of weeds.
· Stream care.
- Some areas are in transition between the city and rural landscapes.
- Farmer wanted reserve along strip, but farmer who bought the property wanted to mow the grass to the edge of the stream.
- Group needs to juggle considerations.
- More accountability for territorial authorities.
· Satisfied with the report.
- Need to pick up issues.
- Sit down with Federated Farmers and settle the issue.
- Exclusive capture in the central North Island.
- Resources do not attach to the title of the land.
- Get Jim Sutton to facilitate.
- Cath Petrey - get a code of practice with real bite.
· These are valid comments.
- But the farmer wants the right to say no.
- 500 people across land per year.
- Want to be able to shut down farm and know who is on it.
- People turn up at all hours of the night, with guns.
- Remove vehicle access.
- This will not stop at walking access.
· Because in isolated areas, have issues in relation to security, privacy.
· Do not want to go through an access agency.
· Should have the right to say no, without reason - if you give a reason, it opens the stage for an argument.
· Have hosted scouts, hunters, 4WD.
- Know that people are coming, that responsible people are in charge.
- Have to go to trouble to make preparations.
- OSH does not interest the landowner because before that, still had a responsibility to those on land.
· What about public rights of way through bridle paths and short cuts.
- Should be able to move from A to B.
- Negotiate with landowner.
· Horror stories with trespassers - the undermining of property rights is not on.
· Fish and Game do not advocate the level of access that Shelley Dew Hopkins makes available.
- The access provided on her farm is generous, more so than by what the report suggests.
- Queen's Chain on her property for legitimate walking access.
- Fish and Game are just looking at reasonable entitlement, thinks that her problems need to be fixed too.
- A Keep Out sign would be legitimate.
· Need to clarify what constitutes a river.
· Do not want confusion between districts.
· Concerned regarding paper roads - meander through farmland.
- Want to be able to say no at critical times.
- Motorbike marks - concerned.
· Address the whole issue at once - guns, dogs?
· District council has been working through guidelines for access with Federated Farmers - no horses, hours of access, closed for public safety, lambing and calving.
· No access to some lakes for conservation purposes.
· Each community is working out the issues.
· Need an agency like the QEII Trust.
- The subdivision trigger is slow in some places, but fast in others, like Feilding.
· Check titles.
· Extensive procedure to close the road.
· Perpetuating the myth of the Queen's Chain, when we do not have one.
· Practicality of esplanade reserves - pay considerable rates to the council.
· Concept to retire fences and plant with a buffer zone, but this could not mean easy access - who is going to pay for that work?
· Willows, weeds.
· The concept of walkways does not exist.
· Concerned that the people here are not those who will be causing trouble - those wandering about are not interested in fishing.
· Increasing access for legitimate users will increase access for undesirable types.
· Access for some may mean access for a lot more.
· Opening up access may mean for more honest eyes.
· Access creates more problems - people may ask once, then keep coming back and eventually steal stock, pick asparagus, remove hot water cylinder from hut.
· It is difficult to trust anyone, people generally end up abusing access.
· How is the Group proposing to pay for the recommendations?
· Uncertain on how things will be implemented.
· Farmers are the biggest rating base.
· Often the people wanting access are not the ratepayers in that area.
· Advocate negotiated settlements.
· Angler access was organised for the upper Manawatu River, with a superb response from negotiation.
· The Queen's Chain ethos is changing.
· There is merit in swapping unformed roads for better access, with varying circumstances to take into account.
· There are people `all over the show' wanting part of what landowners have.
· This is opening a can of worms - farming is a business.
· Access can be done as in the past, with goodwill.
· Property rights have a high price.
· Farmers work hard, they want to retain the use of their land.
· The present system has worked well.
· Pressure from individual property owners.
· It is a pity that this could affect people with a good access setup - allow people to drive onto private tracks for access, but do not mind as long as we know who they are.
· What is happening with New Zealand defence force land?
· OSH is used as a stick to beat people with to get everyone out.
· Need to look at the public land `above' the law.
· Here rivers are entrenched, they do not shift.
· We do not live in a utopian society.
Contact for Enquiries
Rural Affairs Coordinator
Sector Performance Policy
MAF Policy
Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry
PO Box 2526
Wellington
NEW ZEALAND
Phone: +64 4 894 0675
Fax: +64 4 4 894 0745
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