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Christchurch Public Meeting 30 September 2003

The Russley Hotel, Roydvale Avenue, Christchurch

7pm to 9pm

120 Attended

Commentary

· Access trust concept - could have a National Trust, established by legislation with specific powers.

· Able to promote, foster, establish and support a local Access Trust akin to a Landcare Trust.

· These trusts could co-ordinate, arrange, and `purchase' access in its area.

· Access needs to be practical as well as legal (e.g. a gorge).

· Brian Hayes: Access could perhaps be as wide as needed to get access, in other words there need not be a specific width.

· How long will it take to sort out legislation?

· It is simpler to use formed farm roads when people are not able to use the legal road.

· An access agency could negotiate this.

· Brian Hayes: Roads give the most extensive access rights.

· John Acland: Our brief was foot access only, no vehicles or firearms.

· A question is asked about dogs.

· A hunter asks about the usefulness of access if people cannot carry a gun.

· If a landowner will not grant access, are we talking about compulsory acquisition?

· John Acland: We are talking about negotiated access.

· What happens when legal rights are blocked, such as access to legal paper roads?

· What will the mechanism be?

· John Acland: An access agency will need to take the lead.

· The climate is right.

· A landowner: People do not care or behave properly, landowners have to clean rubbish off beaches and creeks.

· Farmers have AMF rights.

· Property is important, `sacrosanct', and underpins Western societies.

· Questions will lead to a certain outcome.

· John Acland: AMF rights need to be looked at.

· There is a loss of access due to the construction of races and water canals etc.

· What is a waterway?

· Is the access in or out?

· A definition about rights is needed to be clear.

· People do not want a de facto right to roam.

· Brian Hayes: Some sort of right would be needed, but width (if any) has not yet been established.

· A land user reports that access has not yet been refused.

· Relationships need to be built with landowners

· The right to roam will come if nothing is done though.

· The Queen's Chain etc are devices used to assert a right of access.

· The public can ask the Government to assert some form of rights.

· New Zealand is now at a point where either negotiated solutions or Federated Mountain Clubs will seek the right to roam.

· OSH and fire liabilities need to be reversed.

· Could the use of Maori trails be diminished (they cross all over the South Island) if the work of the Group does not progress?

· People can do things to get around having to ask for permission.

· Will an access agency have an Ombudsman?

· John Acland: This is only a proposal, it is up to the Government to decide.

· An established access agency could be organised to have stiles, signage etc.

· Lateral thinking is needed.

· There has been a varied reaction from landowners, some good, some bad.

· Sympathy for farmers' views, but foreign owners are refusing access.

· Christchurch City Council: This report is quite rurally focused.

· Has the impact of access proposals in urban areas been considered?

· Gorse etc in DOC land can prevent access in some places.

· This is an issue of practical access.

· How can Maori and non-Maori concerns be connected?

· What about streams which are dry in summer but wet in winter?

· John Acland: Maori will negotiate access.

· The situation is not as difficult as he originally thought.

· Access has to be sensible, with solutions matching situations.

· New Zealanders want access; it is part of their ethos.

· Foreigners should not be allowed to own land.

· Giving access is a privilege.

· There is a danger that goodwill could be lost.

· Some farmers are vulnerable.

· Agrees with flexible solutions.

· Sympathises with John Acland's views regarding people buying land to block access.

· Goodwill is shifting.

· Access needs to be permanent.

· If land is sold to an overseas owner, emphasis needs to be put on access and on the availability of paper roads.

· Who is responsible for the maintenance of tracks and roads (gorse, blackberry)?

· Will farmers be able to charge for the use of roads on their land?

· There seem to be two rules, one for Maori and one for others.

· John Acland: An access agency will need to be able to assist.

· Gottlieb Braun-Elwert: Maori land in customary ownership is quite clearly separate - an Article Two issue.

· If land ownership changes and access has to change (legal), could a change of access be considered?

· Why not ask district councils to clear unformed roads?

· A separate agency is not needed.

· If district councils will not listen, people should go to LGNZ.

· Landowners should have the right to do what DOC does (access fee).

· Fish and Game: Access opportunities have decreased.

· Some landowners in New Zealand have used their access to block public access to fisheries and charge for it, not just for the use of roads.

· There is a need to ensure that the public can access the resources that they own.

· Access involves being in someone's business and walking through it, in both urban and rural situations.

· The Queen's Chain is not a right.

· Discretion should be left with landowners.

· District councils etc do not promote access because of the RMA.

·  Why is the RMA not looked at in the report?

· Landowners refuse to allow access because natural areas may be identified for a district plan.

· The RMA could be an issue.

· This could be seen as an extension of the RMA.

· Concerned about the erosion of property rights.

· An angler comments that a lot of good points have been made on both sides.

· Goodwill is important.

· Large fees are being charged for guided hunting and fishing access to private blocks.

· Resources and access need to be protected for future generations.

· With rights come responsibilities.

· Better information systems are needed to indicate the availability of walkways.

· Landowners would still need to be talked to, as walkways are not always available.

· OSH and Fires Act responsibilities.

Contact for Enquiries

Rural Affairs Coordinator
Sector Performance Policy
MAF Policy
Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry
PO Box 2526
Wellington
NEW ZEALAND

Phone: +64 4 894 0675
Fax: +64 4 4 894 0745
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